The Lamia Harlot Speaks! Headline Animator

The Lamia Hiss

The Lamia Harlot Hissing.

I make various off colour jokes on social ideas and constructs that seem weird or off to me. Possibly remarking why I cannot confess to being human really--humans make no sense to me. Typically including my ideas and thoughts on these rather weird ideas, conclusion jumping to the left, as I step around to the right to see what people are thinking here. Then I thrust some mind viruses in to really drive you insane.

But you know what? I just know history will repeat itself again.

Hope you enjoy me bitching people out.

2010-05-31

(Possibly backhanded) apology to the users of #Fedora of Freenode

*sighs*

Okay, I am going to apologise to the channel of #fedora on FreeNode. Sorry, it is not your fault that fenris02 is a complete and total arrogant prick.

I did get my current scanner issues solved (tendatively). Somebody started to help me go through and find where the udev and hal entries. This person (I apologise that I cannot remember that user's name) was generally very helpful, in helping me find my problem.

We found that the problem is one along the lines of "it works the same as it always has.". IE: The reason my scanner does not work is due to "Bit rot" sort of reasons.

I mean, the solution is not "Katrina is an idiot" so much as "Katrina is running an insanely ancient distribution of Fedora"

So, going in for a reinstall. As /boot is only 200MiB in size. Fedora 12 and Fedora 13 both require /boot to be 512MiB. I probably will have that partition be about 1024MiB though.

Now, I probably would not be as irritated with fenris02, still, if he was not peppering comments of "just because you are too stupid to understand my help--does not mean it is not brilliant."

He now exists in my head, as "fuckers who think that something is clever, based on how little it is understood". Noting that I know of two types of humans, "people" and "fuckers". I care about people. Fuckers are just another set of statistics.

First off, from a few of the other blog entries here, and links to my GitHub account you have likely seen, there is a chance, that maybe, just maybe, I am not completely new to computers. Yes, I understand that there is worlds of knowledge that I do not know of. However, his constant calling me an idiot, and talking to me like a Dalnet user, gets grating.

Personally, I have this rather silly notion, or idea, that if you require jargon to explain something. That is, another language that is only English in that English is a Pidgin language of sorts, then, this something is completely useless.

If I cannot pitch some concept, no matter how technical, so that your average Joe can comprehend what is going on (maybe not at that high of level, but he can still get it), then I do not think the idea is really worth saying it is good. I will also say, that if I cannot explain it in simple standard English, then I fail to understand it, as much as the layman.

Not to say that any idea if explained in English means I understand it, though. I mean, all dobbermens are dogs, but not all dogs are dobbermens.

This is well--mostly due to a lot of influence from my Father. My father is of the opinion, you cannot understand something, if you cannot explain it, or present it in some form. He also gave me the knowledge that no matter how brilliant an idea, if it stays in your head--and is not given any sort of form, either by descriptions or proof of concept, then the idea, for all purposes of the word, does not exist.

My father, is also a fairly skilled technician that the only reason he does not have an engineer's degree is because of his extreme disdain for engineers. So, his set of opinions makes sense.

It really does not help, that the largest handitards on the planet, generally tend to be all about how intelligent they are. Usually screaming out about how much smarter you are than somebody the more likely I am going to think you are excessively retarded. Especially if you start waving around positions and papers you have.

Respect is earned by your interactions with people. Not demanded by positions of power or claims of knowledge.

Gah! Why are Pogeymanz fans so bloody silly?! Gen V speculation rant

Please--some speculation is fine really, it is. However, if you are going to speculate, please take into account previous events in the series.

First off, the starters.

Okay, I am fine with people disliking certain generations of starters. People have been hating the various starterssince about Gen III. I do not have a problem with it. Saying that you hate all of the starters of a certain generation.

Just keep on that attitude. I tend to see a fair amount of "well, I liked the Gen III starters--I mean, they had flavour and various elements to them that war me up. However, I absolutely hate the Gen V starters. I mean, look at that complete rip off of squirtle and piplup."

Okay--you have the memory of a gnat. As typically you just go back a few years, and see either, they were not around for the Gen III stuff... OR, they hated the crap out of the starters. Saying silly things like how much Mudkipz will suck. Or laughing at the flaming chicken. That Gecko thing? Horrid.

Then Gen IV comes. Everybody hates those starters. Turtwig? When it came out, you were hating it. Chimchar? Oh great, another fire fighting. And a flaming monkey to boot. Those cads at Nintendo! I mean, what is their problem! Well, at least Piplup looks good. I mean, the others completely suck, and will never be used. Ever. No way that I can see them ever being used.

Now, we get to Gen V. You'd think we'd know better than to bitch about the starters this time around. I mean, we can get a jolly laugh at how wrong we were with Gen III and Gen IV--and look at these pictures, and speculate in positive ways.

Then, we get people ripping on the water starter. Okay--do they have a valid argument? It is a rip off of Squirtle and Piplup you say?

This, I really do not follow--one bit.

Maybe it is because I have some amount of knowledge of various biologically real animals in our world. Not a lot. There are tons of gaps in my knowledge. I am just wondering how a flippin' Sea Otter gets mistaken for a Turtle or a Penguin. Perhaps explain this to me?

I mean--no, I get it, the water types are much easier to base on animals in real life. Hence why they seem similar. As most of these are based on adaptions to living in water.

I mean, we have various wonderful creatures in our oceans here, that have adapted a lot of ways to live. Yes, some of them are similar--which would make Manaphy and Phione a complete rip off of Tentacool and Tentacruel in that sense. However, in comparison to say, the fire types. There are much less for creatures that live in a constant state of being on fire.

Yes, we have Slugma and Macargo. The only other two IRL creatures that spend a notable time on fire, are Buddhist monks and Poltergeist. Though, if we were to base a Buddhist Monk on Fire/Psychic, we'd have a lot of people referring to the resulting monster as "Carrie"--and trying for a female one.

Poltergeist is a hard one, as it kind of requires a psychic nearby. As typically, following cryptozoology, Poltergeist are not creatures--so much as the psionic abstraction of a really stressed out teenage girl. Be them apparently female, or a variant of MtF. I dunno--that would be fun to see a Shedinja style evolution here. Possibly with a six Pokemon appearing in your party of Fire/Ghost, if you have your Fire/Psychic Pokemon get sufficiently ticked off with you.

Okay, so due to the sheer lack of IRL creatures that are in reality on fire at any notable amount of time, they are kind of forced to get creative here. He have creatures that are based on various mytholigcal creatures normally to deal with fire. Such as Salamander (Charmander), Hedgehog (cyndaquil), Chicken??? (Torchic) and a Monkey. Personally, I like the idea of the last two. A six foot kick boxing chicken and a flaming monkey ARE fairly nice to stand next to.

Personally, I tend to breed my flaming kick boxing chicken in with my flaming monkey producing the following movset:

  • Fire Punch
  • Focus Energy
  • Blaze Kick
  • Double Kick
but, mostly because I really do not like the U-turn/Close Combat combo. Just personal preference here. That is my only issue with it, really.

I mean, now because we do not have animals constantly on fire, save some slugs, poltergeist (paranormal), and Buddhist monks, in comparison to a large amount of creatures that live in THE FRAKING WATER we have complaints on water types.

I really do not get how a sea otter is a ripoff of a turtle or a penguin. I do not think I will ever know.

I mean--bitching and moaning about the starters just gets a little annoying after a while. Especially when the people doing it know they are fully justified. Only to have them go back to liking them, once we get to Gen VI or Gen VII. You just know that these are the same people that will realise how wrong they are.

Next, we get into seeing the legendaries. You know what? They are legendaries. I do not give a flying crap about them. Want to know why?

Arceus is Zubat.

Hear me out here. Remember Mewtwo? A Pokemon that made use of Mew, to be compatible enough to graft all the DNA of the strongest Pokemon in the world. To make Mewtwo the greatest fighter ever conceived? Do you remember this idea that he was engineered to be God amongst Pokemon.

These are the same creatures that blink, and entire cities are in ruin.

Now, fast forward to Gen IV and Gen III. Mewtwo, while in an upper tier, generally is nothing that special. He will get his ass kicked by plenty of other legendaries just fine. Which, in my opinion, justifies his angsty state. As he was essentially made to suck sort of thing. Heck, two nonlegends are easily capable of taking him on to the point of "you mah hoe!" status, those being Wobbuffet and Garchomp.

The idea of being the bottom to Wobbuffet scares me more than being married to Bubba in prison, just to let you know. And to Mewtwo, I can understand the horror that this analogy demonstrates.

By the time, Gen VI or Gen VII comes around. Arceus will be Zubat.

So, really, the Legendaries do not interest me. what does?

Well, I really like Red Chocobo's and Zorak's additions to the world of Pokemon:


From what I have seen of Red Chocobo's take on Platinum, it is pretty awesome as well.

If anything, it is more the society, culture and the people. The world that exists in here. The folklore. The local customs. How things work and operate in this world. The flora, the fauna--the normal things.

I find the common Pokemon more interesting that the legendaries. As to me, they are more real. The legendaries do have some form--but they really are not a major or real part of people's day to day lives.

Possibly with me MSTing the whole thing as I go through it. I have been known to scream at the Tv while playing Pokemon XD: Gale of Darkness.

I also have been noted, that if I were to design a game, I would most likely end with something on par with a Super Mario World: Kaizo difficultly level.

And--oh dear... we have Shippings starting on.. the.. characters... we only have two sketches of the characters... and people are already trying to name the shipping that they will have.

Okay, you know what? I am just going to leave this alone. As, I have never really understood the idea of shippings. I somehow watched Sailor Moon, during its original North American Tv Airing in the mid-1990s, and got through it, without bothering to really care about who ends up with who.

This concept personally troubles me.

As well--a few years later, in the Sonic Archie comics, I was fully supporting of Julie Sue and Knuckles getting together, and pointing to the idea of Sally Acorn and Sonic getting together.

Yeah, I am one of those silly Sonic fans. This is why when people try to tell me I am smart, I point out that people tell that drooling guy over there eating crayons and talking about his birthday party how people tell him that he is smart and can do anything if he tries.

Now excuse me--I am not entirely certain my vacant drooling form is quite at the right level to get phrase of "you are sooooo special and smart!". Any recommendations of colours of crayons to eat to get this status? I hear that yellow is particularly good. Purple, not so much. Yes, Purple has one of the most not worthy tastes--but itis not good to promote drooling. It really does not build the brain enough to allow for people talk about extravagant galas at Chuck E. Cheese's in Hawaii either. I mean, the more the mentally retarded kids talk about that stuff, the more their care taker tells them, "oh, you are sooooo smart. You can do anything!"

So, yes, I guess, being a Sonic fan, could put me in a similar "very special and intelligent" level of regarding.

I mean, the only shippings I can ever think I have ever done (or even remotely cared about) were to deal with Sonic the Hedgehog at the age of fifteen or sixteen.

So quite clearly, I am not at the sage enough level to understand these concepts or ideas. I know they are there. However, much like most people can turn on a Tv, without noting how Liquid Crystal Displays or Cathode Ray Tubes operate, I will note that they are part of my world, even if I cannot understand their inner workings. This also means, I will not poke around with their insides. Like most people should probably not be poking around in a Television set.

Why do I even bother?

I mean, these are the same fans that refer to moves as "OMG HAX!" (which is on the level, in my mind, with people saying that stuff in CounterStrike). They call game modifications "Game Hacks"--which would make CounterStrike a Halflife "Hack" in comparison. As most of what they are doing with Pokemon Games are the same stuff that was done on DOOM I and DOOM II to allow for FPS modifications. Also similar stuff was done on games like X-Com, various D&D RPG Systems and Fallout, to make modifications in Elder Scrolls and Fallout 3 seem to be common place.

However, it is not like these are not educated people here. I mean, look at their tools. Done in... Visual Basic 5 and Java. The Java one (shoddy) is done by somebody, who in my only real conversation with him, claimed to attend the University of Alberta. When questioned the location of the Sciences Campus, he did not seem to understand that various UoA Campuses are scattered all over Alberta. With the Sciences Campus being located in Camrose, a small city south east of Edmonton with no major transport to and from Edmonton. He kept saying I was weird, for the suggestions that all the campuses were not in one spot--and chiding me for going to the lesser NAIT--and Institute of Technology.

These same highly educated people, who do not release their source to a buggy Visual Basic 5 application, because they do not want people to steal their code.

When it IS Open Source, they do silly things, like hard coding various numbers into them. Like the RNG reporter that has an entire section that generates a small in memory database as something to be compiled into the resulting binary. Rather than say, maybe making a database that could be customised.

It is irritating to see various best practices, such as MVC, modular coding, scripting and large amounts of stuff in PEP-8 not in anyway present in these.

And I have no issue with running something for the JVM. Go crazy. The JVM is actually surprisingly well designed. The language Java, however, is not. If you ARE going to work with the JVM, allowing your software to enter into enterprise areas, I would suggest going with Clojure or JRuby. If Jython was not still based on python version 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, apparently 2.5 (for reference the current stable of Python is 2.6, and testing is 2.7 and 3.0). I would also suggest that. And if that coder who promised to release Jerl 6 would do her job...

I mean, you know what? Maybe, I am not the only one crazy enough to suggest a C based framework to do a set of libraries for Pokemon applications. Be them to modify games, simulate or just be elaborate calculators? C based frameworks that follow a large amount of those books on programming theory made in the 1970s. Which suck. of course. I mean, how could they know about efficient code? I mean, they STILL were working within 64KiB of RAM. Computers were the sizes of small houses. Efficiency in software obviously was not something they knew at all. I mean, today, we are totally better. I mean, my program can totally run in 4GiB of RAM, with a 1TiB Harddrive--why am I suggesting it is bad, that we should require this, for something that this could be done on your old 486 with only 16MiB of RAM. Can't I tell that we are doing so much more with our processors today? er--going off on another rant here.

Evidentially, I am not eating enough paint chips to understand these people's really intelligent ideas.

Also, I apologise for the links to wikipedia here. Most of those however, are just for general knowledge of the subject. There are generally better ways to look into the subject-based on your Operating System of choice.

2010-05-28

Suddenly... life starts making sense.

Right... in the after math of: I Just Talk Too Much.

[14:21:09] <hil0> you can't diss someone for not dropping stuff
[14:21:19] <hil0> and then diss this person again when he/she tries
[14:21:31] <hil0> that's just not fair. in any way.
[14:21:42] <kusuriya> you can :P i do it a lot, you keep dissing them in an effort to get them to learn to drop things quick
[14:21:43] <kusuriya> IMO
[14:21:58] <hil0> ...what a backwards way of thinking
[14:22:07] <kusuriya> it works for most normal people
[14:22:10] <hil0> then you get no appreciation for trying to change your ways O_o< [14:22:15] <kusuriya> its how i learned to drop things quick
[14:22:26] <hil0> ...and since when is dake "a normal person"?
[14:22:34] <kusuriya> this is also true
[14:22:36] <hil0> I dun think that will work on her
[14:22:42] <hil0> I think she's like me
[14:22:49] <kusuriya> it may not
[14:22:52] <hil0> needs shown appreciation to keep wanting to change
[14:22:58] <hil0> if that would happen to me
[14:23:10] <kusuriya> but eventually it will piss her off enough that she just wont try to do arguments with any of us :P

Actually no... when I get pissed off, the last thing I am going to do is shut up. No--then it just has me yell at you just a little bit more... possibly moving to violence.

Sigh--this reminds me of High School... well, my High School life before Columbine happened. I will note that all the other students kind of stopped teasing me so much AFTER Columbine... they kind of started being nice to me.

Which kind of says something, when other kids are scared I will shoot them the fuck up, when our school, at the time, was on a Military Base, with the Military Police Station just a few blocks away.

[14:23:22] <kusuriya> me
[14:23:26] <kusuriya> ive personally just given up
[14:23:29] <hil0> I would just say "fuck it people don't care if I try and change or not, obviously, they just like to harass me for being this way and it will never change no matter what"

Oh, hey... look at that... I have entire blog where I bitch and scream about that sort of crap. Funny story that too.

[14:23:36] <kusuriya> if i dont have to say anything i just ignore her
[14:23:51] <hil0> and then I would stop trying.
[14:24:05] <kusuriya> then everyone just harasses you more every time you do it
[14:24:12] <kusuriya> its peer pressure thats how it works

Uh-Kusu... perhaps... maybe.. no.. yes! Let us go with the idea that this is a hypothesis on this here.

First off, some of you may not understand what the fuck kusu is thinking here. Lets give a little setting shall we:

This crap is happening in an irc channel named #rantradio on FreeNode. This is an irc network for Rant Media, whose front man has is known for screaming his head off on various topics of varying importance.

Okay--okay... let us go over how what kusu said here is possibly the most mentally retarded thing I have ever considered.

Gay people.

Those damned gay people. I mean--if peer pressure worked, there would be none of those damned gay people walking around. Or transsexuals. Women would still be chained to the stove, popping out babies every nine months. Black people would still be picking cotton and saying "yesa massah!".

I mean, I grew up in a very conservative small oil town in Alberta, Canada. Which for those of you not aware of what that is like--it is like growing up in a small town in Texas... except a lot more conservative and closed minded.

Yet--I still have my own opinions on various subjects that kind of make the idea of Peer Pressure seem bloody retarded.

So--why does this work on some people, and not others? Well, going with the Jung Typology tests, you get people like us. The ENFP.

And you know what? Only about two or three percent of the people are ENFP.

There you go, Kusu--you appear just like the rest of the population. You are a very special creature humans. I mean--that is what I will define humans as: Very Special.

Edit: apparently editing posts on this site which contain angle braces confused the crap out of it.

Fucking Gay Ass Stigma

Okay--the Stigma on the Gay community is still there. You would think that people would respond to Gay Pride with something like Breathing Oxygen Pride really. It is a rather normal concept (to me anyways) for somebody to like something different that somebody else does not like. Well-except Mikie... he will like everything (and confusing pop culture reference in place).

It is annoying really.

I point out that Adam Sandler's movie I Now Pronounce You Chuck and Larry was oddly well researched. In that it seemed to include a lot of elements from the pride communities. Rather than just being like watching Zoolander.

Compare to Adam Sandler's other concepts:

Billy Madison: no research put into this. Mostly just Adam Sandler looking like an idiot on camera.

Happy Gilmour: about the only information on Golf is the same that could be gained from watching tv for five minutes... maybe driving past the Golf Course.

Little Nicki: Mostly just a large amounts of jokes on popular culture's image of what the son of the devil would be. Not that there is much of a subject to research really, so much as a few vague ideas in pop culture to mock.

Then we get to Chuck and Larry. This movie quotes various anthropological texts on animal habits, it quotes legal statutes in place, it shows a large amount of clues as to inside information on the Gay community. I mean--yes, we frown on that large guy in pink dancing around as a butterfly--but he does appear in real life... way too often. We have the large black guy that people think is tough just because he is big enough to kick people's ass. But turns out being the kind that looks like Tarzan, but talks like Jane.

I mean--I was personally expecting this to be another Zoolander myself. However when I comment that this movie is not, but instead looks like Adam Sandler is possibly entering into more serious cinema... I get:

"Are you suggesting Adam Sandler is gay?"

Okay--let us step back for a bit... just step back here.

Let us go with the idea that perhaps maybe if the movie had been a comparatively more seriously research light comedy on origami or stamp collecting, if anybody would care here.

Had Adam Sandler's first sorie into more dramatic works had been about Bass Fishing maybe, would people respond when you remark that it seemed different from what you expect of him?

No, the guy is a fucking actor. I mean, if Carrot Top did a move like this, it would seem weird. If Ben Stiller did that too, it would get the same response.

I mean, the only reason that Jim Carrey did not get this for the Truman Show was well--he was trying to move outside of Comedy.

Wait? Jim Carrey's first move from Comedy was the Truman Show... what am I suggesting here? That Jim Carrey has spent all of his life, being tricked into living in a 24/7 reality Tv show where he was living an old sit com?

Clearly, if by suggesting that Adam Sandler is gay by remarking that Chuck and Larry was not another Zoolander like I was expect (and I expect many others too)--then clearly, this law applies to Jim Carrey being an unaware sitcom Tv subject.

Gah! Stupid idiots!

2010-05-27

I just talk way too much

Discussion leading up to the situation

23:04 <+Jibkat> http://cdn.betacie.com/fmylife/data/en/illust/u4.png

23:05 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Jibkat: yeah... the proper term is mechanophile...
23:05 <+KatrinaTheLamia> wait... Jibkat... you... you are not a mechanophile are you?
23:06 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Screw it--we are not leaving Jibkat alone with any motorised vehilces ever again.
23:06 <+Trinity> yeah we are, it's his dick that he's fucking up
23:06 <+Trinity> it'll be flat by the time he's done
23:07 <+Jibkat> You know
23:07 <+Trinity> ?
23:07 <+Trinity> don't be mad jib
23:07 <+Jibkat> All this shit talk that Katrina is doing is againt the rules of the chat
23:07 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Trinity: well, I suppose what a consenting adult, and his chevy convertable do int the privacy of their own home is completley their own
                         business.
23:07 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Jibbers: which rules are those?
23:07 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Jibkat: I mean, if I am breaking a rule, you need to cite it.
23:08 <+Jibkat> When somone has you on ignore, your not suppost to be trying to get people to say the shit your saying
23:08 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Citation needed
23:08 <+Trinity> jib: we've all broken the rules of the chat just today
23:08 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Jibkat: who says I am trying it.
23:08 < Kabiri_Jester> eh?.. Citation?
23:08  * Trinity is confused
23:08 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Jibkat: I am just talking, and people seem to be enjoying it.

The incident:


23:09 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Trinity: yeah--jibbers has me on ignore
23:09 <+Jibkat> Trin, I have the fucker on ignore
23:09 <+Trinity> Katrina: no, we are just bored ;)
23:09 <+Jibkat> With his constant furry love shit
23:09 <+Trinity> oh okay
23:09 <+Jibkat> So his tricking you to post stuff he says
23:09 <+Illuminaughty> lol
23:09 -!- CaponeX [~capone@c-76-16-24-38.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #rantradio
23:09 -!- mode/#rantradio [+o CaponeX] by ChanServ
23:09 < Kabiri_Jester> I have a solution, Log into SL and listen to the show
23:09 <+Jibkat> Hey Cappy
23:09 <+KatrinaTheLamia> jibbers: no, I am not doing any kind of tricking anybody.
23:10 <+Trinity> well SEE, now i'm put in a position...O.o
23:10 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Jibkat: if people are posting stuff I say, it is without any suggestion of my own part.
23:10 <+kusuriya> Trinity: its better to just let it slide and dont include jibbles in it he ingores KatrinaTheLamia for his own reasons
23:10 <+Trinity> yeah that's understandable
23:11 < Kabiri_Jester> I have a better solution;
23:11 <+kusuriya> ignores even
23:11 < Kabiri_Jester> Drop the enitre topic all together
23:11 < Kabiri_Jester> T%alk about the Kunfu bear
23:11 <+kusuriya> yes
23:11 <+KatrinaTheLamia> Trin: IO think the reason he is so frustrated by me, is because he likes me, but cannot admit it.
23:11 <+Trinity> I can admit that I didnt know about the ignore, but ANYWAY let's stop bitching about the fucking ignoring people bullshit and go on with regular
                 convos
23:11 <+Jibkat> What is Kunfu beer and how can I get it
23:11 <+KatrinaTheLamia> there we go!
23:11 <+Trinity> Katrina: drop it
23:11 -!- tomzombie [~tomzombie@74-140-207-200.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: The cake is not the only lie]
23:12 <+Jibkat> Trin, its pointless
23:12 <+Jibkat> Just ignore him and move on with your life
23:12 <+Jibkat> ^_^
23:12 <+kusuriya> Trinity: just ignore it and she will drop it she doesnt take commands well
23:12 < Kabiri_Jester> Jibkat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ptYTGTNiyQ
23:12 <+KatrinaTheLamia> drop what?

23:12 <+Trinity> the subject Katrina
23:12 <+KatrinaTheLamia> which subject?
23:12 <+Jibkat> NO, I WANT KUNFU BEER
23:12 <+KatrinaTheLamia> I was talking about Kung fu bear
23:12 <+KatrinaTheLamia> 23:11 <+Jibkat> What is Kunfu beer and how can I get it
23:12 <+KatrinaTheLamia> 23:11 <+KatrinaTheLamia> there we go!
23:13 -!- nimbius [~cicero@71-37-199-174.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
23:13 <+KatrinaTheLamia> ^^ that is not dropping it?
23:13 <+Trinity> Katrina....you're kinda being annoying now
23:13 < Kabiri_Jester> Their was once a wise person who said, "The difference between "Commands" and suggestions, is all in ones perception of self vs. Ego of self
                       worth." I suggest,.. you percieve a better direction and focus of jabing at someone else... Liek me,.. I a way more entertaining target
23:13 <+Trinity> I feel like I'm talking to my son having to repeat myself
23:14 <+KatrinaTheLamia> fuck it-I can say "move on please" a thousand times, and people will still think I am causing trouble.
23:14 <+Trinity> lol Kabiri ;)
23:14 <+KatrinaTheLamia> .ne growls
23:14  * Jibkat meows
23:14 <+KatrinaTheLamia> anyways... Kung fu bear?
23:14 < Kabiri_Jester> Poke fun at the Jester,... its way more entertaining,.. and probably wont get you banned,.. because I like being made fun of. =^_^=

23:14 <+kusuriya> Kabiri_Jester: i agree but im not going to hit hat hive :)
23:15 <+KatrinaTheLamia> I was agreeing with that topic chamnge/
23:15 < Kabiri_Jester> wise idea




I just cannot shut up or change topics. No--I am just stuck in a bloody rut in an argument. Not moving on to a new subject.

You know--this situation has occurred way too many times.

Could somebody please tell me how to drop a subject,

As apparently I have no idea on it.

I thought I was attempting to drop the subject here--but I am apparently mistake. Perhaps something should be put here.

This happens often enough that, clearly I am doing something wrong here as apparently I am the same component in each situation this occurs. I need to learn what I am doing wrong, so this does not continue,


I hope that when June comes--I can cooperate with admins better

Okay--I admit. We are into May. Which, you know what? It is fucking stressful. School tests--which tend to affect students, teachers... and people who hire students.

I am just going to assume that the admin that kicked me was stress prior to me entering the chat. The thing is--that is not something you take onto being justified admining.

Unfortunately--like most issues in IRC, the memories are short of the events... but the impressions last.

Apparently fenris impression of me is that I am an impeccable. I have talked to him on Freenode--fairly often before this. I can swear I have seen him in places other than #fedora. Though--there is a small chances that this may have been an off shoot of another incident on the same server.

If there is one thing I know how to do it is get under people's skin.

Now, lets give a background of my situation.

I bought this scanner a month ago. I have been having issues getting it working. As you can see in the log, I appear to be able to point to how to find out where to find the drivers--and what version it first appeared in.

Also, I have been in enough spots on FreeNode for long enough that, your best assumption is that my first attempt was to RTFM. Possibly look on Google.

Now, into the log:


--- Log opened Wed May 26 19:29:21 2010
19:29 -!- KatrinaTheLamia [~root13@li130-87.members.linode.com] has joined #fedora
19:29 -!- Irssi: #fedora: Total of 430 nicks [2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 428 normal]
19:29 -!- Irssi: Join to #fedora was synced in 1 secs
19:29 < KatrinaTheLamia> uh--quick question what package contains the kernel modules that allow sane to talk to my scanner?
19:29 -!- dhaval [~dhaval@nat-cataldo.sssup.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]
19:30 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, kernel modules? you mean usb?
19:30 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: something like that.
19:30 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, or do you mean sane modules found in sane-backends?
19:30 < KatrinaTheLamia> I was looking through /lib
19:30 < KatrinaTheLamia> uh... my issues stems from modprobe having no clue what I am talking about.
19:30  * Anpan starts to despair
19:31 < KatrinaTheLamia> As the kernel modules I need are well--not there.

Okay--you know what? I can see fenris02's newbie alarms going off on this... if we were still back in the days of Linux 0.97 and 2.0 and 2.2.

As you know what? Back then, that was very common. Today, we are in the modern day of the 2.6 kernel. Typically with only a few throwbacks to the 2.4 kernel. Which has a few howtos suggest a single line of `modprobe scanner` typically.

Trust me--that does show up in the USB trouble shoot sections of a few SANE howtos.

Perhaps look at:

I mean, this was beyond the various man pages and docs on my system... which was my first look.

Typically following

$ man xsane
$ man scan-image
$ man sane-find-scanner

I even decided that perhaps maybe my debug level was not high enough so the following ENV variables were set:
SANE_DEBUG_EPSON2=4
ANE_DEBUG_SANEI_USB=4

So--my debug levels were ridiculously high enough that if SANE had a slight case of the sniffles, it would wake the dead. Causing the brain hungry undead to roam the earth gnawing on the flesh of humans.

I noticed a pattern in my errors:

[sanei_usb] sanei_usb_open: can't find device `/dev/usbscanner9' in list
[sanei_usb] sanei_usb_open: can't find device `/dev/usbscanner10' in list
[sanei_usb] sanei_usb_open: can't find device `/dev/usbscanner11' in list

Okay... let us go under my basic understanding of how linux works. Perhaps, maybe my understanding of Linux is at fault here.

Linux is typically a name for a group of software that work in tandem with together to produce useful results. Remove on element, and it destroys the balance.

Essentially you have the kernel--the center of any large computer program. Typically Operating Systems will have a kernel--but there are plenty of largely created programs that require a lot of work to them that will typically have one centre called the kernel. Various large GUI projects will have a kernel. Items that deal with issues with timing will often have a kernel.

The kernel is probably better spelled as "Colonel". (I may have to refer to a kernel as the naming of "RearAdmiral").

Most "applications" within the framework containing the kernel generally require the kernel to tell them where to go. They build onto the kernel, and may talk between a few of themselves for functionality.

Then there are other elements that are build on layers on that.

In this case.

You have the hardware.

You have the linux kernel

You have init.d (process 0).

You have various applications for super user land.

Then you have user land.

SANE typically is meant to exist in user land. Though, with a few elements in super user land.

Those /dev/ entries? Typically indicate something going on around the linux kernel level.

The /dev file system is something that is done on various UNIX and UNIX workalike systems. It does not exist. Typically, it indicates a list of devices that the kernel currently has an idea of how to talk to.

These files in this file system do not exist on your hard drive--except for their inode values. 

An Inode typically an entry, to my understanding that tells a long about what the "file" is or does and is located for accounting purposes--I admit shakiness on my understanding of this. I do know that if you end up running out of inodes before you run out of space, the device will act as though you have no space on it--though... this never happens in modern systems. Not certain if it is because we have several TiB hard drives on the market--or if advances in partition formats, such as ntfs, jfs, xfs, rieserfs and ext9001, have made it so that running out of inodes is insanely hard to do. It probably is both.

So, these files that it was trying to find in /dev, typically are representations of what the kernel is able to understand and do.

The thing is--these tutorials generally mention that udev should do it automatically (you at user land do not need to worry your pretty little head off... udev will protect you!). They rarely point to locations that may fix or correct udev entries should they fail.

A few of the ones I listed, will point to `modprobe` as a solution for both 2.4 and 2.6. Mind you, 2.4 does have a lot more to load--typically 2.6 only has scanner or usbscanner. This is mostly to let the system know that hey "this is how you talk to scanners"

And go through the tutorials--not all of them suggest this solution. Some say it should just work--though I admit that trying the modprobe may have been Cargo Cult Code--but the last time I have had a working scanner was on 2.4... and that means, I had to run those two or three modprobe commands before I could use sane.

I mean--okay... I could see it as a newbie type question if the documents supported looking through the kernel modules for the scanner.

Which I kind of state--there was nothing, indicating anything in there for any usb talking to a scanner. There was a few generic "talk to devices"--which generally were supported by other items such as CUPS.

I must admit that it is nice that these have generic talk to devices while there is a large amount of external network hardware stuff my modules list and a few external hard drive type stuff.

Internal, go crazy--if you got something varying from SATA, IDE, SCSI or Ribbon based connections.

However, that other external stuff? Mayhaps apply the same policy. Personally, I want to see some form of kernel module that just sends wireless hardware handling to an software point. This however, would allow for various Wifi type conventions to be completely broken at a coder's whim.

My understanding of it, was that even after the device was plugged in it did not see it here.

19:31 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, because you dont use modprobe for scanners typically ...
19:31 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: yes, I know
19:31 -!- jeansch [~jeansch@216.252.92.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
19:31 < Anpan> if things stay like this, i have to go back to windows. And thats what i totally want to avoid.
19:31 -!- StrikerTTD [~Striker@184.76.215.27] has joined #fedora
19:31 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: however pretty much ever SANE howto has a setp that uses modprobe in it.
19:32 < KatrinaTheLamia> for 2.4, 2.5 and 2.6 kernels at least.

I was about to point out that this was not a typical situation, as we have various /dev/ entries not showing up.

19:32 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, ok, you do whatever you feel is best. when you want it working let me know

Translation from Passive Aggressive to English. I do not know the answer--however I am going to make it well known that what you are doing is incorrect. I refuse to be helpful--and will mostly wait here while you struggle and just answer with I told you so.

Please, fenris02, we have seen each other in the channel a few times. Typically I have some idea on what I am doing--my issue is that it is not the Fedora way. Which does have some good traits. Heck some wonderful traits. However, you guys suck at getting it out there.

I mean, okay, you DO have a wiki for setting up various items. The issue is, that it obvious has a very bad search engine ranking, as well--I do not think I have ever seen it appear in Google. I mean, I am more likely to see forums dealing with porting my program to a legacy version of Amiga OS and their issues, before I see the fedora help site in google.

It does not show up as standard bookmark in the browsers I run (which I have never removed the fedora bookmarks). While I do not place many bookmarks--I have issues remembering the domain name.

It only pisses me off that it SHOULD be something easy to remember--however in my mind... it is just one step outside of helpful.

Now, the Fedora Forums do show up--I do not really bother with forums for help.

You get three typical answers:

Answer A:

Somebody whining about an issue--and people agreeing they cannot get it to work either. These get irritating to see when you have solved it--but for some reason are unable to post on your solution.

Answer B:

Somebody claims to have solved it. People confirm it. Wait a few months--and they disappear. New people come it, talking about how the solution gave does not work. Even faithfully repeating every reported conditions.

Answer C:

A problem is posted. Then they say they solved it--without really pointing out what happened. I mean, even an "I dunno--magic shoe pixies?" would be a good answer here. Answer C sucks for me--because all it leaves me wondering is, "okay--that is nice... why does it not work for me"

Further more, the Fedora help wiki is surprisingly under documented. There is a large amount of sections that are in a state of fill in later.

Which is nice--I understand people are busy, and there is a lot to talk about. This kind of negates it as "a place to go for help" though.

Okay... so...

We have fenrir02 here... obviously not wanting to help.

And guess what? That passive aggressive comment is what sparked the fire.

He showed no indication of helping--flat off from the start, he branded me as a newbie somehow following philosophies from Kernel version 2.1 era (which do not even appear in many tutorials either these days). 

I mean, was I really that stupid, the modern equivalent was "I clicked the GUI, it did not work."

I can live with fenrir02 going senile though.

19:32 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: I want it working now
19:32 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: okay... how do I do this?
19:32 -!- d33p_th0ught [~fizzy@unaffiliated/fizzy] has joined #fedora
19:32 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, step 1) stop playing around with modprobe.
19:32 -!- cpuobsessed [~tim@adsl-074-183-121-238.sip.bgk.bellsouth.net] has joined #fedora
19:32 < KatrinaTheLamia> As just about ever document I could find on google fail on the step that requires modprobe to be used.
19:32 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, what scanner do you have?
19:32 -!- jerry [~jerry@67-197-6-67.rh1.dyn.cm.comporium.net] has joined #fedora
19:32 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: one that is in the epson2 sane-backend
19:33 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, how many entries do you have in dll.conf ?
19:33 < KatrinaTheLamia> I have removed everything expect for epson2 and net
19:33 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, does "lsusb" show your scanner?
19:33 -!- daMaestro [~jon@fedora/damaestro] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
19:34 < cpuobsessed> whoa! photorec is AWESOME!
19:34 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: the issue stems from  the fact that no where in /dev is /dev/usbscanner\d+ or /dev/usb/scanner\d+
19:34 < KatrinaTheLamia> I have put sane-find-scanner's debug level up to four on several spots... it has no idea how to talk to any form of scanner hardware
19:34 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, does "lsusb" show your scanner?

Okay, fenris02... I pointed out what I saw the issue here. Please stop going into "is it plugged in mode".

I mean--it is generally very irritated that I am frustrated that this scanner has not been working for about a month, and your general going into your old drills, when I have pointed out my situation was that I have ran various items here--and guess what? The error is that I do not have the devices to allow programs to interact with the scanner.

I have given you a general summary of the situation here. Yet you go into drill mode.

Thank you for regarding me as a person--and not just another fucker that comes in for support.

By the way, my view is that there are two kinds of humans: people and fuckers. It was obvious that I was in the fucker category here.

It may have been a long day--and fenris02 may have been under stress.. but well...

19:34 -!- amabo [~matsa@cpe-66-27-107-106.san.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora
19:35 < amabo> how might i go about installing gnome 3 with fedora 13?
19:35 < fenris02> amabo, su -c "yum install @gnome-desktop"
19:35 < amabo> fenris02: thanks!
19:35 < Anpan> So nobody can/wants to help me anymore?
19:36 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: there is an Epson entry
19:36 < fenris02> Anpan, your driver was not found in kmod-staging? you sure?
19:36 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: but it has only saw the printer part of it
19:36 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, ok, what is that line?
19:36 < Anpan> fenris02: well, the networkmanager doesn't show any signs of wlan being available
19:36 < KatrinaTheLamia> Bus 001 Device 014: ID 04b8:0854 Seiko Epson Corp. 
19:37 < fenris02> Anpan, did you install kmod-staging successfully?
19:37 < Anpan> fenris02: yum didn't return any errors, at least.
19:37 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, what is the full model name of teh device?
19:38 < KatrinaTheLamia> Epson Workforce 310
19:38 -!- Vorbote [~vorbote@unaffiliated/vorbote] has joined #fedora
19:38 -!- tmclaugh [~tom@c-65-96-209-125.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
19:39 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: my scanner appears to have been in the Epson2 backend since about version 1.0.12
19:39 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, are you sure?  it does not show up on the list ...
19:40 -!- cpg is now known as cpg|away

Right--you know the situation better than me... but uh... did you know about? They suck at updating this list.

19:40 -!- cpg is now known as cpg|away
19:40 < KatrinaTheLamia> I will grab you the vender id and stuff... look for it that way
19:40 < cpuobsessed> amabo: gnome 3 isn't out yet, you can install what they are calling a preview: gnome-shell
19:40 < KatrinaTheLamia> those lists are horribly unmaintained it seems
19:40 < amabo> cpuobsessed: do i have to recompile a kernal or anything like that?
19:40 < fenris02> you already provided the vendor id above.

Yeah--I know.. but... that output was only vaguely verbose. I mean, generally I am not for tool reports containing what appears to be two Ambigiously labelled number BUS and ID, followed by two seeming arbitrary numbers.

I mean, yes, it is obvious now--but it generally gets annoying when people put output on a console or into a long that is largely a lot of meaningless numbers and vague terms.

Yes, that is wonderful for internal stuffs. Go crazy with internals.

If the program is spitting out diagnostic info... well... lets compare with `ifconfig wlan0`

wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr 00:XX:XX:XX:XX:XX  
          inet addr:10.0.5.26  Bcast:10.0.5.255  Mask:255.255.255.0
          inet6 addr: fe80::224:2cff:fe98:97ed/64 Scope:Link
          UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST  MTU:1500  Metric:1
          RX packets:44374643 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
          TX packets:24944142 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
          collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000 
          RX bytes:3470024625 (3.2 GiB)  TX bytes:3987538479 (3.7 GiB)

That is a lot better than the output of lsusb.

While, yes, that does require some network knowledge it is generally a lot easier to make heads or tails of than of what lsusb says.

Oh, right--this was where fenris02 decided I was insulting him--no, I am mostly just irritated, and venting a little.

I also want a problem solved... and my main instinct when a problem steps on me, so to bite it until it  is solved.

19:40 < KatrinaTheLamia> found USB scanner (vendor=0x04b8, product=0x0854) at libusb:001:014
19:40 < KatrinaTheLamia> plug those two hex values into sanes search option.
19:41 -!- chia [~chia@117.254.215.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:41 < KatrinaTheLamia> It has been included since the four patch level of 1.0.12
19:41 < KatrinaTheLamia> though... it seems to have listed it as since "1.0.124"... I am mostly going to blame an accident with the version system
19:42 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, sane-find-scanner reports what?
19:42 < cpuobsessed> amabo: for gnome-shell? no; it's a part of desktop-effects
19:42 < cpuobsessed> yum install gnome-shell
19:42 -!- GungaDin [~yaron.hir@203.175.120.250] has joined #fedora
19:42 < KatrinaTheLamia> right... I will paste a more full form
19:42 < KatrinaTheLamia> [sanei_usb] sanei_usb_open: can't find device `/dev/usbscanner14' in list
19:42 < KatrinaTheLamia> [sanei_usb] sanei_usb_open: can't find device `/dev/usbscanner15' in list
19:42 < KatrinaTheLamia> found USB scanner (vendor=0x04b8, product=0x0854) at libusb:001:014 # Your USB scanner was (probably) detected. It may or may not be supported by # SANE. Try scanimage -L and read the backend's manpage.
19:43 < KatrinaTheLamia> those cannot find device exists for... well... over nine thansand lines above that.
19:43 < KatrinaTheLamia> if you want I can redirect STDERR and put that into pastebin
19:43 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, please use fpaste.org or dpaste.com for that.
19:43 < fenris02> much easier to follow that way.

Right-- fenris02... see... this was where I already doubted you ever cared to follow me. I just entered into you channel. Another fucker--but an angry noisy fucker.

Completely ignore the fact I pointed out everything above that is the same error message over and over again.

Completely ignore that the vendor id I gave earlier was from the command you asked for, and yet you asked for it again.

Completely ignore that there was only five lines of paste--five lines of paste that contains all you really need to know the issue here.

19:44 -!- Dephenom [~Paul@office.getresolved.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:44 < KatrinaTheLamia> in this case, it was only five lines... and most of the redundant crap was removed.
19:44 -!- ciupicri [~ciupicri@81.180.234.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving]
19:44 -!- kc8hfi [~kc8hfi@173.80.112.52] has joined #fedora
19:44 -!- severnaya [~severnaya@unaffiliated/severnaya] has joined #fedora
19:44 < KatrinaTheLamia> the important part are all the lines, fenris02, I would think, that it cannot find a device to talk to the scanner
19:44 -!- severnaya [~severnaya@unaffiliated/severnaya] has left #fedora []
19:45 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, and did you try 'scanimage -L' as suggested?
19:45 -!- DiscordianUK [~ch@fedora/DiscordianUK] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:45 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: no... no I doid... OF COURSE I DID...
19:45  * KatrinaTheLamia does that again
19:46 < spoleeba> fenris02, udev rules issue>
19:46 < spoleeba> fenris02, ?
19:46 -!- daMaestro [~jon@fedora/damaestro] has joined #fedora
19:46 < fenris02> spoleeba, possibly.  i cant get the facts to find out

I gave you the facts you need, right at the beginning of this discussion.

This here is mostly for you to do an exercise in you ability to masturbate your passive aggressive prowelness.

You are not really showing any interest in the situation. The only reason you care is because I am coming here loudly. Chances are--the other result would be me pasting my question over and over again--with well... what happened last time.

I got told to head over to #sane... who kept directing me to #fedora.

When I get that from various phone lines, it usually means that I am phoning Canadian Government Workers--usually heavily incompetent ones.

My confidence in your solution is gone.

You got your data you need.

Please, just listen.

19:46 < fenris02> spoleeba, you are welcome to try instead
19:47 < spoleeba> fenris02, if i had any usb scanner to poke at...i would
19:47 -!- CapnKernel [~mjd@ppp59-167-188-93.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
19:47 < kc8hfi> i copied my old .fdi file from f12 and trying to use it in f13 isn't working quite right.  did something change with the format or something?
19:48 < spoleeba> fenris02, i see the udev rule file..and the long list of scanners...and im just wondering...

Hey, fenris02... I cannot say this to your face--but the psycho yelling chick? I think she may have been correct here.

19:48 < fenris02> spoleeba, *nod*  it is certainly a good suspect.
19:48 -!- dcr226 [~dcr226@80.175.89.153] has joined #fedora

You ass kissed me well enough--good, you get to be correct.

19:49 < KatrinaTheLamia> Like I have been saying my issue from the start was.
19:50 < KatrinaTheLamia> Hence why maybe... just maybe, under the step in most howtos, for even the 2.6 kernel (which last I checked I WAS using... I can run uname -ar if you want), to run at least one line of modprobe.

Oh, hey, fenris02... I am just going to voice my opinion on how spoleeba just said I was right, on the information I gave at the start of this.

Rather than this run around you did here, when you regarded me as fucker and did the long ass "is it plugged in spiel"

19:50 < spoleeba> KatrinaTheLamia, pardon...but can you give me the vendor and device id again...i want to try to look iot up in the udev rules for sane scanners
19:50 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, i've told you before, and i will only repeat it this once more.  you are welcome to keep bashing away until you guess upon the solution, or ask and learn.  if you insist on being sarchatic and unfriendly, i'm free to go elsewhere.

Well, yes, you are--you however do not.

In this case, you just kick me, rather than part the channel.

Again more passive aggressive bullshit.

If you are going to kick somebody, flat out say, "I will kick you if you continue."... please do not do this "I am the good guy. I am helping"--when all you are doing is nothing.

19:50 < fenris02> spoleeba,   found USB scanner (vendor=0x04b8, product=0x0854) at libusb:001:014
19:51 -!- Skaperen [~phil@c-76-125-202-149.hsd1.wv.comcast.net] has joined #fedora

Okay--here he was actually helpful... it kind of required ass kissing though.

19:51 < spoleeba> fenris02, its in udev
19:51 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: right... perhaps you should ask... perhaps... perhaps maybe I did your way... about ooh--three weeks ago... in fact, I think this line of stuff did not work... I was then bounced over to sane
19:51 < spoleeba> fenris02, ATTRS{idVendor}=="04b8", ATTRS{idProduct}=="0854", ENV{libsane_matched}="yes"
19:51 < fenris02> spoleeba, yep.  here too.
19:51 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: I am just a little bit frustrated, as previous experience shows that following these steps does not work.

Translation: I am sorry. I should not have used this channel to vent. You are starting to help me--so I will start to calm down.

19:51 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, ok.  someone else can help you then.  good luck.

Translation from Passive Aggressive to English: see, you are wrong. Your scanner works completely fine. This problem requires no more attention from any of us. Never mind that the only person who actually have attention to the situation was spoleeba.

Translation con't: I mean--I also did a large amount of going through the motion, so I looked helpful. So it is all good.

Oh--hey fenris02... guess what would have ended this situation here?

Just simply asking, is it in your udev file, Katrina? Here is the location, paste it onto a pastebin.

I mean, it is not like Katrina was the first to suggest using some paste bin, but risked pasting something that was only five lines--followed by me saying the rest is redundant and that I can paste the full STDERR output onto a pastebin.

19:51 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: you ARE aware of the definition of insanity then

For those of you unaware:

The definition of insanity is trying the exact same stuff over and over again--and magically expecting some different result without any reason for it to be prompted.

I figured that was somewhat more tactful that what it translates out to:

Translation: FUCK YOU! I have done those steps several times. I'd sooner try to use the Goggles.

19:52 < pixinvent> I LOVE FEDORA
19:52 -!- goldfish [~goldfish@co1fw01-02-e-0-0-v315-gw.tradefair.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds]
19:52 < pixinvent> I'm just saying.
19:52 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: yeah... and somehow, I doubt that would be help ful either... wait... I KNOW! IS MY BLOODY COMPUTER TURNED ON >.>'
19:52 -!- sindrepb [~sindrepb@c1E6F47C1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #fedora
19:52 -!- cobra-the-joker [~cobra@41.131.85.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving.]
19:52 -!- StrikerTTD [~Striker@184.76.215.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
19:52 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, correct your attitude or go elsewhere.  NOW.

You clearly are not kissing my ass enough.


19:52 < KatrinaTheLamia> pixinvent: actually I love it too... just... the error I am having is very unexpected.. and it is frustrating as it seems that there is no solution
19:52 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: okay-I will still myself.

BTW: am I the only one that thinks my next two lines are to the effect of attempting to disarm the situation.

However, the ire of fenris02 has been risen. The person asking for help, did not play his games, did not kiss his ass, and pointed out his exact behaviours.

The only thing that will come next is being dunked into a pool full of Hungry Sharks with Frikkin Laser Beams on Their Foreheads.

19:53 < Skaperen> last time I tried to use Fedora ... which was a while back (Fedora 9 I think) ... I could not figure this out ... but I'm going to try to set up a machine with Fedora 13 tomorrow ... what I want to do ahead of time is get a list of all packages I could choose to install (and browse through them and make choices ahead of time)
19:53 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: that was not attitude... it was mostly just veniting. Not aimed at anybody in particular.
19:53 < Anpan> pixinvent: i loved it too... until today
19:53 < fenris02> Skaperen, the install guide is an excellent place to start
19:53 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: mostly to just let off some steam.

BTW--I have a funny idea.. or theory on how to be much more happy.

I generally ignore people letting of steam in these.

If somebody is swearing and getting rather sarcastic, I merely take it as symptoms that maybe they are human, and frustrated. A gentle hand is a best touch--rather than telling them that if they do not start kissing my ass, and playing my games, their problem will never be solved.

I have seen people that frustrated in channels I have been able to help in.

Noting that I seem to be using some dialect of English here, likely EN-GB, maybe EN-CA--it is fairly obvious that I show some intelligence. I also flat out told him how I felt the situation was occurring here. To his face. I apologised once, and mentioned that I would try to calm down. However, it was typically answered with passive aggressive nonsense--and only going through the motions of help. With no real interest in doing so.

19:53 < Skaperen> fenris02: I believe that is what I did last time ... have they added a list of packages now?
19:53 < pixinvent> If you have a hard time setting up fedora just do the live CD. It's easy Ubuntu style.
19:53 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, keep it up and i will also let off some steam ... in your direction.  Now, behave.
19:53 -!- rigeld2 [~Rob@ab1-4-160.shsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: why do you think I am flaming people?
19:54 < fenris02> Skaperen, what is it you're looking for specifically?
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: because I am not

Spoiler: If you are not fluent with Passive Aggressiveness, he was generally flaming me a lot more.

I was merely reacting in an honest way. Generally considering his way, less than honest, and generally very irritating, frustrating and not worth my time to deal with.

19:54 -!- mck182 [~quassel@93.91.241.53] has joined #fedora
19:54 < Anpan> pixinvent: i doubt that would fix my problem with missing wlan and the keyboard that doesn't work
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: have I insulted anybody since I got in here?
19:54 -!- papillon-butineu is now known as alphad
19:54 < pixinvent> The Fedora 13 DVD lets you specify the packages. It's awesome. I love the minimal install.
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: if anything, you have been more insulting to me.
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: now lets move on.

Why do I feel like I am repeating myself here?

Ohh... lets see..

19:32 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: okay... how do I do this?
[...]
19:43 < KatrinaTheLamia> those cannot find device exists for... well... over nine thansand lines above that.
19:43 < KatrinaTheLamia> if you want I can redirect STDERR and put that into pastebin
[...]
19:45 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: no... no I doid... OF COURSE I DID...
19:45  * KatrinaTheLamia does that again
[...]
19:51 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: right... perhaps you should ask... perhaps... perhaps maybe I did your way... about ooh--three weeks ago... in fact, I think this line of stuff did not work... I was then bounced over to sane
[...]
19:51 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: I am just a little bit frustrated, as previous experience shows that following these steps does not work.
[...]
19:52 < KatrinaTheLamia> pixinvent: actually I love it too... just... the error I am having is very unexpected.. and it is frustrating as it seems that there is no solution
19:52 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: okay-I will still myself.
[...]
19:53 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: that was not attitude... it was mostly just veniting. Not aimed at anybody in particular.
Translation: I am sorry that you took offense. This was not aimed at you. Please stop acting like I am punching your mom in the stomach repetitive while I force her to watch me shove a pineapple up your Dad's rear end.
[...]
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: why do you think I am flaming people?
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: because I am not
Translation: you seem awfully pissing about what I am saying here. Nobody else has complained. Heck, if you had just shut up, and quit acting like you had something that only resembles a slightly larger than average lack of desire to help, some of the others would have jumped in.

No, I insulted Fedora... as... it did not work perfectly out the box... you'd think I defecated on your grandma's grave and used the flowers as tissue.

It is an OS--it is normal for something to not work. I am a human (I think), it is normal for me to be frustrated at a situation. It is also normal for when I gave a full summary on the situation, even gave you all the useless data you needed to stroke that ego of yours that you may have been helping--you still maintain I do the steps I did again, that did not work.

Also, if you had perhaps asked for a past of my udev file, as, you know what? It may have been incomplete. There are countless things that could get in the way here. I appologise to the audience (yes all i3 of you) for speaking the tongue fenris02 was using here. The translation is: probably one or two typical things that can be shrugged off, and worked to fix the situation more fully.
[...]
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: have I insulted anybody since I got in here?
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: if anything, you have been more insulting to me.
19:54 < KatrinaTheLamia> fenris02: now lets move on.

Right... Citation needed obviously:

19:32 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, ok, you do whatever you feel is best. when you want it working let me know
[...]
19:40 < KatrinaTheLamia> found USB scanner (vendor=0x04b8, product=0x0854) at libusb:001:014
19:42 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, sane-find-scanner reports what?
19:42 < KatrinaTheLamia> found USB scanner (vendor=0x04b8, product=0x0854) at libusb:001:014 # Your USB scanner was (probably) detected. It may or may not be supported by # SANE. Try scanimage -L and read the backend's manpage.
[...]
19:43 < KatrinaTheLamia> those cannot find device exists for... well... over nine thansand lines above that.
19:43 < KatrinaTheLamia> if you want I can redirect STDERR and put that into pastebin
19:43 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, please use fpaste.org or dpaste.com for that.
19:43 < fenris02> much easier to follow that way.
19:44 < KatrinaTheLamia> in this case, it was only five lines... and most of the redundant crap was removed.
Translation:
Katrina: I pretty much took two lines of the exact same errors over and over again, and put them after the final output line.
Fenris02: Please, this is my world. We need to follow my rules, whether or not they apply here.
Fenris02: With your large paste, I have issues following its intrinsic structure
Katrina: You... cannot follow five lines?
[...]
19:46 < spoleeba> fenris02, udev rules issue>
19:46 < spoleeba> fenris02, ?
19:46 < fenris02> spoleeba, possibly.  i cant get the facts to find out

Katrina Aside: You are a pretty sharp fellow aren't you. I mean, not somebody that any details get past. No wonder all of my fedora issues have not been due to small quirks or glitches that paying a little attention would fix
[...]
19:50 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, i've told you before, and i will only repeat it this once more.  you are welcome to keep bashing away until you guess upon the solution, or ask and learn.  if you insist on being sarchatic and unfriendly, i'm free to go elsewhere.
[...]
19:51 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, ok.  someone else can help you then.  good luck.
[...]
19:52 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, correct your attitude or go elsewhere.  NOW.
[...]
19:53 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, keep it up and i will also let off some steam ... in your direction.  Now, behave.

-=-

Okay, yes, I did fire stuff off at him. And you know what the correct thing would be here? To have helped the others-- and let that spleeba fellow help.

19:54 < fenris02> KatrinaTheLamia, you are also disrupting everyone else that wants assistance.

Oh, hey, citation needed here:

19:35 < amabo> how might i go about installing gnome 3 with fedora 13?
19:35 < fenris02> amabo, su -c "yum install @gnome-desktop"
9:40 < cpuobsessed> amabo: gnome 3 isn't out yet, you can install what they are calling a preview: gnome-shell
19:40 < amabo> cpuobsessed: do i have to recompile a kernal or anything like that?
19:42 < cpuobsessed> amabo: for gnome-shell? no; it's a part of desktop-effects
19:42 < cpuobsessed> yum install gnome-shell

Summary: somebody wanting to preview software already out.
Status: Solved
[...]
19:30  * Anpan starts to despair
19:31 < Anpan> if things stay like this, i have to go back to windows. And thats what i totally want to avoid.
19:35 < Anpan> So nobody can/wants to help me anymore?
19:36 < fenris02> Anpan, your driver was not found in kmod-staging? you sure?
19:36 < Anpan> fenris02: well, the networkmanager doesn't show any signs of wlan being available
19:37 < fenris02> Anpan, did you install kmod-staging successfully?
19:37 < Anpan> fenris02: yum didn't return any errors, at least.

Summary: Somebody whining. It is attempting to look like asking for help.
Status: undetermined. I got kicked before we could see if she got it online. Her reply may have been delayed due to network shifts.
Help Process: Same status quo, reading from the long list of check list that from the looks of it, Anpan already tried--and did not work.
Chances help would work: little to none.

Likely unless she has a physical agent next to her to allow somebody near by to help her out, she is going back to windows in about six months.

From the looks of it, she will be another user saying Linux is too complicated.

The online help is fine here--but this is the sort of thing somebody physical nearby (that is, somebody real) would be best.
[...]
19:47 < kc8hfi> i copied my old .fdi file from f12 and trying to use it in f13 isn't working quite right.  did something change with the format or something?

Summary: vague summary of a floppy disk image from Fedora 12... tried to use it in Fedora 13.
Status: ignored
Chances to get helped:

Used the .fdi file extension to shorten the fact that I am guessing he used a F12 bootdisk for launching the installer CD. And tried it again for Fedora 13.

This is probably going to through them all through a loop. Chances are they will ask why not boot off of the CD ROM instead of the floppy. Chances are two replies will be made

1) Hardware issues
Likely response) time for an upgrade

2) desire for a network install
Likely response) ignoring them for a more "real" issue.

Proper solution:
  • Confirm he is talking talking about a Floppy Image. There may have been an error with guest OSes and is guest OS of Amiga may have been screwed in the upgrade. He may also be using a library to run Amiga programs natively. An upgrade of this level, likely would upgrade this software enough that it may cause issues.
  • Reply that the new floppy probably knows to target the newer sections of the CD orDVD media--as well a a better idea of how to grab Fedora 13 as a network install.
[...]
19:53 < Skaperen> last time I tried to use Fedora ... which was a while back (Fedora 9 I think) ... I could not figure this out ... but I'm going to try to set up a machine with Fedora 13 tomorrow ... what I want to do ahead of time is get a list of all packages I could choose to install (and browse through them and make choices ahead of time)
19:53 < fenris02> Skaperen, the install guide is an excellent place to start
19:53 < Skaperen> fenris02: I believe that is what I did last time ... have they added a list of packages now?
19:54 < fenris02> Skaperen, what is it you're looking for specifically?
19:54 < pixinvent> The Fedora 13 DVD lets you specify the packages. It's awesome. I love the minimal install.

Summary: Skaperen trying to install Fedora, like it is Debian or a BSD.
Status: Solved
-=-
19:52 < pixinvent> I LOVE FEDORA
19:52 < pixinvent> I'm just saying.
19:53 < pixinvent> If you have a hard time setting up fedora just do the live CD. It's easy Ubuntu style.
19:54 < Anpan> pixinvent: i doubt that would fix my problem with missing wlan and the keyboard that doesn't work

Summary: Attention Whoring.
Status: Ignored. pixinvent is not ass kissing quite right
Chances to be helped:
Why? I kind of agree with him.

-=-

And thus at the end:

19:54 -!- CARAM [~C@ip72-211-238-98.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #fedora
19:54 < Skaperen> fenris02: a list of packages
19:54 -!- mode/#fedora [+b *!~root13@li130-87.members.linode.com] by fedbot
19:54 -!- KatrinaTheLamia was kicked from #fedora by fedbot [time out]
--- Log closed Wed May 26 19:54:53 2010

So the horrible issue of I got banned from a channel of unhelpful people on the internet.

My response: I bitch about it on a blog that nobody reads or cares about. I mean, most blogs at least have +5 people... I have i5... that is instead of positive five people, or negative five people, I have an imaginary number of viewers.

I think my response is justified.

2010-05-21

No interest in Alex Jones

Okay... just got into a conversation, with somebody talking about We Are Change. No, not Alex Jones. Just somebody representing the cause for me. And you know what? I have no interest to join those lunatics and delusional crackpots.

This needs to start somewhere. Something needs to be put into this to get somebody to not only talk to me about this group.

It was china labour. Somebody was ranting about how they make chinese people work 14 hours for seven days a week. Well, at this stage that exists in a form of Schroedinger status. At this point, they both do this and do not do this at the same time. Until I can observe it. And likely if I were to go out to China, I would probably change the state of this--while I was there anyways to observe it. I have no clue if this is true--I mean just mentioned the common idea of Bangkok is that ever deranged sexual fantasy is reality there.

I am also aware that these may be rumours. Stuff that people just say--but is not true. Compare what a lot of otaku say about what goes on in Japan. Mostly that school girl rape is real. Porn exists on Saturday morning cartoons. That having sex with little girls is okay. That it is okay for school girls to have sex with their teachers. Usually the list goes on and on to become even more ridiculous with each entry.

Until I hear something more than just rumours, that is how Thailand will exist in my mind. Just a set of rumours that I am not entirely certain are 100% accurate. Heck, I am not entirely certain they are 30% accurate.

Now keep in mind: Otaku does not mean "fan of Japanese culture". It usually means "idiot who throws their life away for a useless cause." With connotations of this person dropping out of school, being large, creepy and not well cleaned.

So--my use of vernacular is correct here.

The guy goes off to ranting about Walmart. So, he is already coming off as somebody who bitches about things. Which okay, we are on common ground here, I am a blogger. I know all I am doing is just bitching out in prose form. I mean--I am not even certain my family reads this. I mean, I probably just write this stuff, and nobody cares abot it. Essentially, by blogging, I am just bitching about something without any real action. I just try to be entertaining. We are on the same grounds... or so I think we are.

I ask him what he is doing. He lists:

  • Buying from local producers
  • Voting for the right politicians
  • Getting information out.
Okay.. just a few things wrong with this.

First off, buying from locally produced goods does not mean you are screwing the big guy. As well--most of the farms here in Alberta generally have a fair amount of government sponsorship... or in some cases, corporate sponsorship. Why is this? Well, a lot of them tend to have issues affording the costs of running the farms.

Farming is very expensive, and less people are choosing to be farmers every year.

Typically, even buying locally produced, you still are putting a fair amount in corporate wallets. This is without going into Prosiliac and the fact that they buy their farm equipment from the corporations.

I really do not want to touch why I think he is rather bloody silly about voting for the right politicians. I go to vote... but, I typically do not think it really does anything to help. I mostly do it, to keep people like this yahoo from yelling at me. Considering I live in Alberta, a rather conservative province, and I generally tend to vote NDP or Pirate Party (if they will have a riding here)... I generally know that I may as well just flush it down the toilet. For all it is going to help me. The only reason I do this, is so that yahoo's like this, do not constantly bother me about not doing it.

I honestly believe it does not good. So, I am already giving in to enough peer pressure as it is. I am not one to vote for another more popular party just to keep the Tories out. No, this is enough peer pressure on me as it is. I generally prefer the NDPs to the Liberals most of the time anyways. And if I was voting for the "cool kids party" it would not be the Liberals that got my vote. No, no, no--it would be the Tories. Considering enough peer pressure is being applied here, if you are going to apply any more--you know what? Why not go all the way? The next step to voting for a party I agree with, but do not think will get it, is voting for a party I do not agree with , but know will get in. Making the choices hopefully Pirate Party (agree with, but do not see in), or Tories (do not agree with, but they will get in).

Keep in mind, just the fact that I am even bothering to play this little game in the first place, I am already compromising enough. This is already a compromised state, tell me to go further, and I will stop pussy footing it, and vote for who will get in--as well, going Liberal already is bending it even further than I am willing to play games with.

Getting information out to the public does not work if they are not receptive.

I told him a better idea is to become the corporations. Become a powerhaus that they do not want to piss off. Become somebody as big as them.

Well, his answer is, he does not have he money to do this. This is very important--as here he shows himself to be a hypocrit. Later on, he points his finger at me, for not spending large amounts of money on a specific brand of bottled water.

He goes off somewhere else about how all Fortune 500 companies are criminals. That no fortune has been made without crime and blah blah blah.

So, I tell him, then, why not just do some crime.

His response was something along the line that there are heroes out there, who do not crimes in any way.

I tell him he is wrong. Ever hero is just a criminal presented up in a positive light.

No change has ever been made without some rules being broken.

This was when he showed the most evidence of snapping. Of--well.. somebody who has started drinking a lot of the Koolaid. Which is nice--I probably should have asked him if he found his Nike's for when he put the blankets over his head, and ate the apple sauce.

He started taking what I was saying, and twisting them around in his head to not make sense anymore.

He told me, that my proposition of committing violence was not the solution.

WTF?! I did not mention violence. I mention that there is a law you do not agree with the reasoning behind, you break it. You break some rule, that does not need to be there. That has no reason to be there. His statement was that I was talking about violence.

Next he goes off to talk about how Martin Luther King did not do violence. Well, that is the thing, there were a lot of criminal acts during the Black Civil Rights movements. Starting with an old black woman not sitting on the front of the bus. This was an illegal action at the time.

Even then, what about the LA Riots? What about the Black Panthers. I mean, while the Black Panthers are some scary cats--they did some good. Why? Well--typically it was the black guy that got picked on by groups of white men in dunce caps--these guys well... they at least made things equal. As now we have both gangs of white men and black people going around beating the crap out of stuff. I mean, now gangs of all colours can run around killing people, without fear of being different. I consider that a sign of equal treatment. Should those idiots in white robes and dunce caps stop running around, and the Black Panthers are around--the black people have more power. Should the Black Panthers disappear and those idiots in white robes and dunce caps say--those idiots get more power. If they are both here, they are both equal. I personally do not see any reason to believe that they will both disappear though. They will just take on a different form.

I mean, the Gay and Woman Civil Rights movements too, had their own fair share of illegal activities done in them. As a protest for stupid laws in place.

Hey, in China--do you not think that perhaps standing in front of a tank, may not be considered illegal? It IS resisting authority... about the only law in that country really. Nothing says "fuck you" to authority, like standing in front of a tank.

The idea here is that in some cases, the laws that need to be removed, need to be broken at one point.

Okay--this is not too bad... but... what is his main avenue. Phone and sending letters to his MLAs and MPs. Personally, I have never had much stock in that. As well, I first need to have a convincing point in my letter. I mean--there have been plenty of bills passed just fine, that I hated, that people tried bulk mailing MLAs with.

The issue with that is, at some time, those letters just become meaningless. Like another "You may have won one million dollars!"

Especially with the issues that yahoo here was having stringing together coherent logic.

Well--okay... he needs a cause. What is his cause. Flouride in Water.

I--I--I just face palmed here.

First off--Flouride in Water is what is called a conspiracy theory here folks. I mean, okay, you have large amounts of evidence that you are true. That does not stop the average joe from thinking you are a total whack job.

Okay--sales spin change here: present it as "lessening the hazardous chemicals put into the water."

This works. Now present the various risks that many of the chemicals in your water present. Yes, Flouride would be on the list, but mix it in with others. Other compositions and what not.

I tell him, you know, when you tell people you want to stop putting Flouride in water, you are coming across as a total whack job to most people. This is in the topic of conspiracy theories to most people watching.

He did not understand how a rant that Mel Gibson's character went into right at the beginning of the movie Conspiracy Theory would go off on this one.

I mean, HIV being used to clear out the ghettos to most people listening is on the same level.

At this point, you may as well be wearing tin foil hats, and typing up letters signed FRANCIS E. DEC ESQUIRE. YOUR ONLY HOPE FOR THE FUTURE. For all the good it will do you.

This is what you look like to most people at this time. This is part of why I follow Sean Kennedy The Fucking Man--because at least he is aware of the fact that this is how he comes across. He plays with it. He jokes about it. He entertains with it. The main reason I am generally inclined to consider what Sean Kennedy is going to suggest, is because he entertains about it.

The same goes for Doctor Steel.

Yet, the yahoo I was talking too was convinced that if he just puts the raw data out to the world, people will change. People will move people will not do something other than sit on their large asses.

I try to tell him, that you need to present your side as something people will want. You need to convince people. You need to make them want to care.

He was so blind in his faith that things will change here. That by passing out flyers. That by "voting right". That by "not buying" corporate stuff. He is somehow bringing forth change.

The thing is, he was representing We Are Change. In doing so, he was--hurting them more.

His actions are the sorts of things that have been getting done since the 1960s by the Hippies. Now, do hippies actually change anything. Hell no--they are the laughing stock of effective action. Hippies are like Aquaman of the revolutionary world. "Whales! How about we save them with WHALES! WWWWHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAALLLLEEEEEEESSSSS!!!" (quote from Team Four Star's Dragon Ball Z Abridged).

We both go off to get food. I end up drinking some water. After that cup... I get a rather horrible Tylenol Headache.

I am allergic to every painkiller on the market. I was just reacting like I had taken a decent dosage of Tylenol. I was getting a pretty horrid headache.

I mention to him, that you know, perhaps we should work to make our filtering systems somewhat more effective? Our city's water treatment plant is upstream from the water intake. There is not much of anything in place (or really that exists) to filter out all of these fine pharmaceuticals that come out in urine.

He goes off on some rant that I do not care about. Like a really badly scripted in game NPC. Talking about how pharmaceuticals get into the water, and a whole process that I know entirely about. He came off sounding extremely scripting in his repetition of stuff I already new about. Hence why I brought it up.

I end up yelling him to stop treating me like an idiot.

We then go into the process of having people learn about issues, and fix them. However "only one issue at time"

I tell him, that it is about agreeing upon which issue to fix. As there are many. He responds that we all have the same issues. We need one at a time.

I yell at him, "I do not care how much fucking flouride is in the water-just get the other fucking crap out!"

He was now in  smug form of somebody who had no clue what was going on--who still thought he knew it all, "go drink some more water with Tylenol in it."

I responded that such an action would only make me more violent and blood thirsty. Tylenol gives me a fierce headache. I am lucky that it was not Motrin in there. Motrin makes ever muscle in my body ache and hurt.

He says that I should have bought bottled water.

I tell him that it really was not that real of an issue for me that long ago.

He takes the assumption to mean that I have never drank bottled water ever before. Okay--he is obviously delusional and very psychopathic here.

I tell him that I have drank bottled water before.

He asks me why I am still drinking tap water.

I respond that I have been broke for the past two weeks.

He asks why I did not buy it last week when I had money.

Okay--it is at this point, that I understand this guy is not listening to me in any meaningful manner. Or he has no logical capacities whatsoever to consider what is going around him, and taking in the information in a decent manner.

He asks when I had money. Did I buy water then. I respond yes.

"What Brand?"

!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??

I answer, I did not look at the brand. I did not think it mattered, I just look at the label to see what the ingredients and chemicals compounds contain.

He goes off on a rant about how Aquafina is the devil as it contains Flouride and that is has 3 times as much as tap water, listed right on the label.

I kind of pointed out, that yeah, that would have ruled it out. As it says it has it in it on the label. Making it not an acceptable purchase.

I pointed out that between September 2009 and the start of January 2010, I had tried to be a Vegan. Which got me very good at reading labels. I also learned, I could not function as a Vegan. I need meat.

He states that I could not say what brand I drank. I said it did not matter--I turned the bottle to the side, to the list of ingredients and chemical compositions in the bottle, and just completely ignored the brand.

He then goes off on how I am not doing this right because I am not drinking BC Water.

I point out that you now, relying on a brand is kind of stupid. As they can kind of change their composition at any time. If you do not look into it for the ingredients, you likely will get screwed.

Nonsense. It contains BC Spring Water.

And McDonald's burgers contains 100% Pure Beef. As well, the company that does their meat is incorporated as "100% Pure Beef LMT"

His response is, "ha! I DO NOT eat McDonalds"

Right, missing my point once again. My point was that the processing plant doing the water may be incorporated as "BC Spring Water Co."--Meaning that this did not mean anything.

Look at the ingredients.

He tells me it says it contains Whistlewater.

I ask him a yes or no question here. It was very simple. In the list of ingrediants. By the chemical composition on the side of the bottle, as all bottles are required by law to contain this information, does it list it as "Whistlewater".

By the way, if you list your "water" ingredient as some other weird chemical, the same alarm bells go off in my head, as if it says aspertain or heavy water. I mean, I know what carbonated water is. Whistlewater I do not. I am also not going to trust the sales spiel of he people wanting me to drink the stuff. At least with tap water,  I know it is water... but like cracker jacks... I never know what prize is inside.

He gives me a link to the website saying that the label is in the front page.

I follow, and tell him, wrong part of the label. The image he gave me had a brand name logo. Not a list of chemicals and what not in there. Nothing on its purifying process. It was just a brand logo, from the front. Fluff that I do not care about.

He stopped responding to me. Calling me a "negative thinker" and "not a team player". That I was part of the problem here.

The thing is--at the start of this, I flat out stated that I knew I was not doing anything to help. I was wondering what he was doing to help out. He said he was doing lots. He was passing out flyers, and writing letters, and all that stuff. Which was a lot more than me.

Well, the thing is, he was doing a lot more. He made me not want to go to a group that he has presented as self deluded crackpots via his representation of it.

Apart from that--he is doing a large pile of nothing to change the system. The only difference, is he thinks he is doing something.

Evidence shows, he is just another part of the system. Another cog in the system. Designed to make himself think he can change it with pretty much no effort.

If anything, he is perpetuating the system even more.